Is anyone else not a fan of the ‘Spider Family’?

[TheCape]

I don't really see how Jessica is above Gwen when it comes to standing up for herself, since she usually doesn't, she's just a Spider-Person who's around and sometimes is an Avenger, whatever stuff from her past is ignored because writers don't like bothering.

Anya and Julia, ironically I see them having huge potential, but since Anya lost everything that could make her stand out and only really has a very loose connection with the magic side of Spider-Man's mythos, and Julia is mostly useless, even though ironically she should at least be amazing in at least combat (And briefly she was under Slott, since she managed to keep up with Spidey after he learned Spider-Fu, and it's specifically pointed out she uses her precognition powers alongside her own Spider-powers) yeah, they're screwed lol.

Just realized how Anya and Cindy had their situation reversed, 'cause Anya started with good enough potential, but lost everything, Cindy started as some piece of shit character who didn't have much of a point, then her situation with being isolated actually affecting her character gave her something to do, ironic lol.



What purpose does Gwen have that isn't "Oh you remind me of that chick who was thrown from a bridge once"?

Miguel is a reversed case, since it's Peter who gives him some purpose, but Peter himself doesn't get much from Miguel besides "Oh there's a Spider-Man in the future, that's cool".

He gives Peter legacy, that his narrative purpose overall. I don't think that he should interact much with Peter thougth, one of the problems with his recent solos is the fact that he wasn't in his enviroment (wich is kind of Miguel's point for being a beloved outlaw figthing against an opressive corportation).

[PCN24454]

Well, depending on what season we're talking about...

No, we're not talking Wild Force, Mystic Force, nor Kyoryuger.

The other Rangers are important. It's just that Marvel things that teamwork is for weaklings.

[Darthfury78]

Person asks Random Kid: "You know who Miles Morales is? What Spider-Gwen looks like?"
Random Kid: Gives instant correct response.
Person asks Random Kid: "You know who Jessica Drew, Julia Carpenter, Kaine are?"
Random Kid: Instant No.
Random Kid: What's Black Widow doing with Spider-Man. She's an Avenger.

So I don't think your claim that this version of the Spider-Family is somehow better in terms of marketing and sales than the one with Miles and Spider-Gwen has any empirical grounding whatsoever.



As does Miles Morales

Miles Morales belongs to Earth-1610. Sooner or later, Miles(and all transplant UU) will return to their own universe. When I bring up the previously mentioned characters, I stated that their origins should not be shared with Peter Parker. Miles Morales(in the UU), Cindy Moon, and Ghost-Spider share the same origin as Peter, whereby they each got bitten by a radioactive spider. The reason why I feel that Julia Carpenter, Jessica Drew, Black Widow, and Kaine Parker should be the core Spider-Family cast is because:

1. They have background experiences that does not overlap with Peter Parker
2. They each have unique skills that are diverse among them respectively
3. They are not time hoping characters from other timelines
4. They are friends with each other
5. A series that would have them working together would be a goldmine for Marvel

I never liked how Marvel tried to bring Ghost-Spider and Miles Morales to Earth-616 from their timeline. Especially those who have the same origins and powers of Peter Parker, which is boring. Marvel needs to mix things up if they want their books to compete with the Japanese Manga Publishers. I like my Spider-characters who are different from Peter Parker, in terms of experience and upbringing...

[JTHM]

I don't really see how Jessica is above Gwen when it comes to standing up for herself, since she usually doesn't, she's just a Spider-Person who's around and sometimes is an Avenger, whatever stuff from her past is ignored because writers don't like bothering.

I think that's precisely the point. Historically, Jessica has been one of the most disconnected Spider-People to Peter and his orbit. She is mostly linked with SHIELD and The Avengers. In fact she was one of the faces of the Avengers during the 2000s/early 2010s. Sure, how much she can stand up in terms of sales is not a great deal, but I certainly think she has more capabilities to be able to hold herself up away from the orbit of spider titles, if anything, because she has a niche that she can fill in other corners of the universe. But I guess you do have a point in Gwen probably being higher than her when you consider her appearances in other mediums, which I wasn't thinking too much about when I made that post.

[Darthfury78]

Black Widow in this is weird, since the spider is just in the name, which even that she doesn't represent much and is more of an aloof spy.

Black Widow is much more than just a spy or Spider-Themed character. She would bring depth to the Spider-Family with her knowledge and experiences with covert operations and leadership. Especially her ties to Peter's parents during their days with the CIA and KGB. In my opinion, Black Widow should have been a reoccurring character in the pages of Spider-Man back in the 1970's to the 1980's as there was a lot of potential stories that might have lead them to uncover circumstances that plagues Spidey to this day...

[Lukmendes]

At least Peter feels in-character and is generally fairly mature throughout the show, so that's one spot where they diverged from Slott.

So none of that "Immature, incompetent manchild in one chapter and super competent, intelligent leader in another" bullshit? 'Cause it was annoying when Slott did that 'cause it made it look like there were two different Peter Parkers since no way they both could be the same guy lol.

Points for the cartoon if so.

That's the thing though. It doesn't seem like Marvel has quite made up their mind whether they're fine for just team-ups or need to be a significant part of Peter's life, to where they're absent for most of his comic until they suddenly appear for one storyline or take up screentime and focus on what is ostensibly supposed to be Peter's solo show.

Like, say we ever get another Spider-Man cartoon that stars Peter Parker, would it be expected to just focus on Peter Parker or would they probably have to introduce Miles, Gwen, Cindy, Anya, et al so there's a bunch of other Spider-Heroes?

This lack of decision is why they feel so redundant in team ups, because Marvel doesn't establish anything, the other Spiders are just there lol.

In a way, and I repeat, in a way, the other Spider-People should get something like Julia, 'cause even though she tends to suck, she has a role that other Spider-People just can't fulfill without stealing her powers, do something like that for the others, and maybe the team ups will have a point.

Spider-Verse doesn't have this lack of decision, which is why every Spider-Person has a point, even Blonde Peter who died in 5 minutes has a role that none of the others really fulfill outside of completing his mission.

He gives Peter legacy, that his narrative purpose overall. I don't think that he should interact much with Peter thougth, one of the problems with his recent solos is the fact that he wasn't in his enviroment (wich is kind of Miguel's point for being a beloved outlaw figthing against an opressive corportation).

Yeah transporting Miguel to the past is a weird gimmick, like, it can work in short story arc, but I don't think it's a good idea as an status quo.

And I did mention Miguel giving Peter a legacy, though I used a more dismissive tone simply because I don't see that adding too much to Peter's character, though I guess it does show that someday he'll be valorized, too bad we probably won't see it, even when it's 2098 in real life (Assuming comics even live that long lol).

I think that's precisely the point. Historically, Jessica has been one of the most disconnected Spider-People to Peter and his orbit. She is mostly linked with SHIELD and The Avengers. In fact she was one of the faces of the Avengers during the 2000s/early 2010s. Sure, how much she can stand up in terms of sales is not a great deal, but I certainly think she has more capabilities to be able to hold herself up away from the orbit of spider titles, if anything, because she has a niche that she can fill in other corners of the universe. But I guess you do have a point in Gwen probably being higher than her when you consider her appearances in other mediums, which I wasn't thinking too much about when I made that post.

I mean, being able to fill a specific role means nothing if it's not done.

Jessica has a lot of potential, ex Hydra agent, super hero, private detective (Which is what she did for about half of her existance), spy, avenger, mother, a lot of roles she can fill, a lot of potential, but mostly not used as much.

And she's hardly the only one with a lot of potential, Julia having both Spider-Woman and Madame Web powers is just insane when it comes to her potential, but that potential is wasted because she takes Cassandra's passive role, even though she's not nearly as limited as Cassandra, 'cause Cassandra was an old cripple, meaning she had to take a supportive role, so Julia staying on the back is pretty dumb (Even dumber after that one time showed that she does know how to combine her precognition with her strength and agility), making it pretty redundant for Cassandra to have been killed to begin with, and Anya had potential with her power and the whole connection with Spider Society and Sisterhood of Wasp.

If we're talking only about potential, then ironically there's not as much going on for either Miles or Gwen, yet they're the popular ones who aren't named Peter, which to this day I don't really get why Gwen is popular aside from the cool costume, but whatever.

Oh, and while one's dead and the other's forgotten, Mattie had a cool potential at least by being JJ's niece, and Charlotte at least had a cool idea by being Cassandra's villanous granddaughter, who was a fashion designer who probably was terrible at her job considering how much her costume sucks

Black Widow is much more than just a spy or Spider-Themed character. She would bring depth to the Spider-Family with her knowledge and experiences with covert operations and leadership. Especially her ties to Peter's parents during their days with the CIA and KGB. In my opinion, Black Widow should have been a reoccurring character in the pages of Spider-Man back in the 1970's to the 1980's as there was a lot of potential stories that might have lead them to uncover circumstances that plagues Spidey to this day...

I mean, if those things you listed were done then she'd be another super hero who he's on friendly terms with, would be hard pressed to say she should count towards being part of Spider-family shit since she doesn't have the powers, what you're asking is way more personal too, which, could be cool don't get me wrong, just that it's a step further than the gimmick of "Let's try to make those Spider-themed heroes have roles and work together!"

But honestly, now that I remembered about her, at this point I don't really see why Natasha should be picked over Teresa, while they both could end up filling the same basic role, I think it's better for Spidey to use stuff from his world more, instead of stealing another character to fill that role.

[Darthfury78]

I mean, if those things you listed were done then she'd be another super hero who he's on friendly terms with, would be hard pressed to say she should count towards being part of Spider-family shit since she doesn't have the powers, what you're asking is way more personal too, which, could be cool don't get me wrong, just that it's a step further than the gimmick of "Let's try to make those Spider-themed heroes have roles and work together!"

But honestly, now that I remembered about her, at this point I don't really see why Natasha should be picked over Teresa, while they both could end up filling the same basic role, I think it's better for Spidey to use stuff from his world more, instead of stealing another character to fill that role.

The reason why I felt that Natasha would work well with the Spider-Family is because she brings outside experience that was not part of Spider-Man's world. I feel that the Spider-Family should have a core focus of characters who have different experiences that could unlock some interesting stories. The series would better flush out Natasha's character alongside Julia Carpenter, Jessica Drew, Kaine Parker, and Peter Parker. I don't think that Marvel has ever had these characters working together as a group. The idea of Spider-Man using stuff from his world gets boring because things tend to repeat themselves. Sometimes using things on the outside(by bringing in outside characters who has them) would only help the series as each can make a contribution to the story.

[Lukmendes]

The reason why I felt that Natasha would work well with the Spider-Family is because she brings outside experience that was not part of Spider-Man's world. I feel that the Spider-Family should have a core focus of characters who have different experiences that could unlock some interesting stories. The series would better flush out Natasha's character alongside Julia Carpenter, Jessica Drew, Kaine Parker, and Peter Parker. I don't think that Marvel has ever had these characters working together as a group. The idea of Spider-Man using stuff from his world gets boring because things tend to repeat themselves. Sometimes using things on the outside(by bringing in outside characters who has them) would only help the series as each can make a contribution to the story.

They kinda worked together during Spider-Verse, minus Natasha, not that they did much together.

And Spidey using stuff from his world only becomes boring if we keep overusing nostalgia, and I never even said stuff from outside of Spidey's world being used is a bad thing, his friendship with Johnny and Matt work fine, despite neither being part of his world, and Johnny having very different adventures, just that it's better to have his own stuff more often than not, and if Natasha were to be used to have this more personal connection with Peter, again, I don't see why she should be used when Teresa can do just that in a way that makes more sense.

And I still don't see how Natasha could be part of a "Spider-Family" since she fails at the very basic requirement of having Spider-Powers, 'cause again, what you suggest is way more personal lol.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Miles Morales belongs to Earth-1610. Sooner or later, Miles(and all transplant UU) will return to their own universe.

Miles Morales made his debut in 2011. He arrived in 616 in 2015 after Secret Wars 2015.

He now has a longer history as a 616 Character with more issues in 616 than he ever did in Ultimate Universe.

Also he won an Oscar.

No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever.

[cc008]

Miles Morales made his debut in 2011. He arrived in 616 in 2015 after Secret Wars 2015.

He now has a longer history as a 616 Character with more issues in 616 than he ever did in Ultimate Universe.

Also he won an Oscar.

No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever.

It's been THAT long already. Jeez where does the time go?

Miles is staying. But I do think if the Spider-Family is going to continue, there needs to be clear "mission statements" for each book and character. Not just a different version of Peter.

[NC_Yankee]

Miles Morales made his debut in 2011. He arrived in 616 in 2015 after Secret Wars 2015.

He now has a longer history as a 616 Character with more issues in 616 than he ever did in Ultimate Universe.

Also he won an Oscar.

No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever.

You are correct. If Marvel decides to retire Peter Miles will be taking his place ( that was the end of Life Story). As for Ghost Spider it was pointed out that she is popular with people ( just not long term fans), so she stays. Natasha and Peter do not exactly get along. While it is true Peter can get along with Wade and Frank Castle ( better then most heroes can ), there is no need to force a relationship. Besides Theresa works well because she is new and Spencer or any writer can find different stories and uses for her. The others just do not fit the street level stories that work best in Spider-Man, and I get the impression that they just want to hook up Peter with some super heroine. Guess what? MJ is still a better choice. My idea of a “Spider Family” ( or better yet Parker family) should be MJ, Theresa, Aunt May ( if she lives) and maybe a kid like Annie or May in the future.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Miles Morales made his debut in 2011. He arrived in 616 in 2015 after Secret Wars 2015.

He now has a longer history as a 616 Character with more issues in 616 than he ever did in Ultimate Universe.

Also he won an Oscar.

No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever.

Same goes for Old Man Logan. He spent more real-world time in 616 than in the Wastelands, took part in several group comics and events and not just his own one, and was featured in the best X-Men film of all (and some say the best live-action superhero film of all). Plus, it provided an interesting and fresh new take on a severely overused and overdone character like Wolverine. You could have said back then "No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever". And yet... they did.

[Lukmendes]

Plus, it provided an interesting and fresh new take on a severely overused and overdone character like Wolverine.

I guess that happened when other characters weren't treating him like the usual Wolverine, or when he wasn't acting like the usual Wolverine...

You could have said back then "No way Marvel's gonna let him out of 616, like ever". And yet... they did.

Apples and oranges though, all Old Man Logan did was replace Wolverine by being a counterpart replacement, it'd be like if Marvel killed off Spidey and had Ultimate Peter be transfered to 616 as his replacement, only for Spidey to come back a few years later. Miles never came to 616 with the intention of replacing Peter, it was just to cash in his popularity and to take him out of Ultimate's dead brand, so it's very unlikely Miles is leaving unless he become unpopular somehow, or if Marvel tries to resurrect Ultimate and decides to bring Miles back, I find either one to be unlikely.

[Frontier]

No, we're not talking Wild Force, Mystic Force, nor Kyoryuger.

The other Rangers are important. It's just that Marvel things that teamwork is for weaklings.

I don't think Marvel is saying teamwork is for wealkings. Spider-Man just isn't a team character.

So none of that "Immature, incompetent manchild in one chapter and super competent, intelligent leader in another" bullshit? 'Cause it was annoying when Slott did that 'cause it made it look like there were two different Peter Parkers since no way they both could be the same guy lol.

Points for the cartoon if so.

Was he ever really depicted that way?

Yeah transporting Miguel to the past is a weird gimmick, like, it can work in short story arc, but I don't think it's a good idea as an status quo.

And I did mention Miguel giving Peter a legacy, though I used a more dismissive tone simply because I don't see that adding too much to Peter's character, though I guess it does show that someday he'll be valorized, too bad we probably won't see it, even when it's 2098 in real life (Assuming comics even live that long lol).

Although traveling to the past ended up netting him his seemingly final love interest and even a kid.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Same goes for Old Man Logan.

No, same does not go.

Miles Morales is an entirely new legacy character, as opposed to an old AU version of an existing Marvel character. It's not the same thing.

Miles Morales the character became popular and big and that's why Marvel imported him into the main 616 Universe. Him coming from Ultimate Universe was secondary rather than essential.

Whereas Old Man Logan is essentially the same character as regular Wolverine but in another timeline and continuity. There's not a real trade there.

...and was featured in the best X-Men film of all

Old Man Logan wasn't featured in that movie...Hugh Jackman's Wolverine was. Totally different characters.

LOGAN the movie borrowed only a few elements from the comic, drawing everything else from X23 (who is closer to Miles Morales all things considered as a legacy hero with a minority background).